welcome everyone to today's webinar, the proactive pivot, moving from reactive hiring to ROI driven results. I'm Fiona Morton. I'm the SVP of global partners here at PageUp. And just a few housekeeping items while we wait for people to join. You're in listen only mode, but we still would like you to participate. There will be a poll at the end and an opportunity also to ask q and a. If we don't get to the q and a at the end of today's webinar, we will reach out to you directly to help answer those questions. And a recording of today's session will be being made available in a few days' time. Now let's get on with the the great content we've got to share with you guys today, and I'm delighted to be joined by Mike Bealy and Garth Quinn. Mike is CEO of Lightbox Communications and joins us with over thirty years experience in recruitment marketing and employer branding. Mike is passionate about helping organizations establish and maintain their EVP and employer brands locally and globally. And he supports that across many industries and sectors, helping them build sustainable pipelines through compelling and memorable recruitment marketing. Welcome, Mike, and thank you for joining us today. Hello. And also joining us, Garth Quinn. He's the director at Hive Talent and senior workforce and talent leader with more than thirty years experience designing and delivering recruitment strategies across aged care, health care, disability, and human services. And that includes roles at Healius, Uniting, and APM. And through Hive Talent, Garth does help organizations move beyond short term hiring problems and agency dependence by building sustainable talent solutions. He focuses on enabling organizations to really grow service capability and improve workforce stability. So thank you, Garth, also for joining us today. Thanks, Jan. Good to be here. So let's have a look at the agenda, what we're covering. We all know the headlines on talent shortage in health care is a new normal today. But in twenty twenty six, simply knowing there's a shortage isn't enough. And so today, we'll be covering how to put that talk into action, and we'll be showing you just how to transform your TA strategy from reactive into a strategic growth engine. We'll break down the economic landscape at the beginning of this call and look at creative processes to manage proactive sourcing demonstrate the right technology can give you ROI and measurable accountability to your leadership team. So let's jump in. Over to you, Mike. Thanks, Fiona. Well, I thought I'd start you you mentioned there the the phrase talent pool. We talk about this a lot, and very often, this is a phrase that we that we we borrow from perhaps the states and from other areas where they do actually have large amounts of of available talent. We really don't in Australia, and we never really have. We we perhaps have a talent puddle at best. And and right now, there seems to be a sort of talent mirage happening where we get the impression that there are millions of ready and available and relevant people out there, talent out there that's that's right for our business, but actually isn't. So I just wanna go through some of the slides of the state of the market just to help people understand why things are so difficult at the moment and why we're operating in a high volume, low quality environment, which which obviously makes it very difficult for TA trying to wade a trying to wade through a mountain of of of hay for for one or two needles. So so this is the first slide here, and there's been some sort of black cotton and mirrors going on in government. This this that drop since twenty three to twenty five is quite clearly has been a recession, but it's been the recession that no one's actually named. Recessions are consecutive drops in GDP growth, and we've had eight of them in a row, I think. So we have been in a recession. If anyone asks you, yes, we have. That's why things have been so tough recently. But there is some returning consumer sentiment. This is this is the the December figure from last year. There was a slight drop in January when interest rates went up. But overall, over the last five years, since the since the COVID drop and the post COVID boom, we we've had a a a generically rising consumer sentiment, which means people feel better about their lives. There's something better out there. I'm feeling better about my mortgage. I'm feeling better about my house. I'm feeling better about opportunities for myself and my family. So that that perhaps leads to higher job mobility and people popping their head up over the trench to see what's out there. And that's followed by business confidence. We've now had probably eighteen months of steadily recovering business confidence. And when, as as we know, when leadership are confident about the future, they are more open to listening to our ideas for for for growth and improvement. So we've got that as a tailwind. And this this is the big one here. If you if we've had a second drop now in unemployment. We're down at four four point one percent. In Tasmania, it's just dropped below four percent, which which is historically, we've never really seen. We saw it back in twenty two following the post COVID boom, but that was an extraordinary period. We're now operating at one percent less or one or one percent drop in unemployment over over the period when we entered COVID. We were at five point one going into COVID. So regardless of the fact over the last couple of years, unemployment has has ticked up. We are in fact in a full employment environment where where there is no talent pool necessarily in that figure. This one came out yesterday. I I I shut I I silent to to recommend that this is necessarily a drastic improvement or a boom coming back, but we saw a three point six percent uptick in in job ads. And the the rhetoric or the narrative is that's been largely driven by the mining sector and WA in Queensland. So we we are seeing twenty six as perhaps the start of a recovery in job ads. And this is the big one. We've currently got about two point nine million people in Australia. One in ten people in Australia are on temporary visas here, which the inference is those are people that may not be here in a year's time. So this is what I talk about, this talent mirage. We get massive numbers of apparently qualified people, but are they temporary? Are they are they in fact permanent solutions for us? And that's now showing up, and I think the people on this call don't need me to tell you that recruitment is getting harder. It's getting harder to find the quality amongst the quantity, and that's the the sort of talent mirage that we that we talk about. The lower skilled workers are plentiful, but it's still as harder as ever to find those high skilled workers. So we we think there needs to be a shift from sort of reactive to proactive, and and and that could be a shift from recruitment to recruit and marketing. And that could be summed up as on the next slide, that could be summed up as shift from sort of hunting to farming. The more we learn and the more we experiment, the better we can get at what we do, and we can repeat the good stuff and drop the bad stuff. That's the shift from reactive to proactive. So back to you, Oreyfak. Thanks, Mike. So as meant as as Mike mentioned, there is this recruitment marketing lines blurring. So we're seeing that shift also across our client base and a shift in organizations who are particularly leading recruitment attraction strategies. They recognize recruitment is becoming more like marketing. In fact, eighty six eighty six percent of HR professionals agree that's happening because modern talent attraction is proactive. It's about engaging with passive candidates who aren't looking for roles to build those future pipelines of talent. And it's a true strategic shift, thinking just like marketeers do, defining consumer customer personas. Recruiters now also need to define candidate personas so they can map out specific personalized journeys moving from a generic one size fits all messaging and really targeting the people you want to work with you. And now automation and use of AI supports that scale, rapidly creating campaigns while CRM CRMs help you track the engagement and build vibrant talent communities. This means you have talent ready to go. And PageUp is in a unique position to be able to offer capability, not only full talent acquisition stack, but make true marketers of any person in the world regardless of the ATS they use. So let's just shift slightly the conversation and look at some data points at our end. Firstly, we know having recorded fifty five million career data points that you have most of the traffic coming to your career site, and the first thing they do is a look at a job. In fact, eighty five percent of candidates do that. And for those hard to fill roles, you need to make sure you capture them and lower the barrier of entry for them to get there. And that ensures that you, for certain roles, get their first name, last name, email, basic information to start a relationship and start marketing your unique value proposition to them. You have only two minutes to capture their attention, and we know that seventy percent of job seekers are visiting your site. They're invisible to you. So it's all around how do you apply technology, how do you apply the right message to make sure you convert those people when they are ready to apply for roles, and you don't lose your sourcing costs as a result of it because you've already paid once to get them there. So without further ado, let me hand over to Garth, and he'll talk you through some of the techniques in which to do that and get your business on that journey. Thanks, Fiona. Thanks, Mike. So the, the title of this, webinar is the proactive pivot. So what are we talking about when we say the proactive pivot? So from that perspective, I draw a line through the middle of this funnel. So bottom half, the reactive part, part that the traditional ATSs manage, someone applies, you move them from box a to box b, you choose a candidate, you put them through their background checks, and then you hire them. So that's the reactive part. That's the the the the the the part that most ATSs handle well. What we're talking about in the proactive side of things is building a bigger funnel to help not candidates. We'll talk about the difference between leads, applicants, and candidates shortly, but build awareness of your brand, get people to consider your roles. And then when they're when they're ready to show interest, make a really easy process for them to show to show that interest so we're not putting up barriers for them to to give us their name, email address, like Fiona mentioned. So I'll go further than what, Fiona said. Talent acquisition is marketing. There's no denial of that where I sit. Like I said, we need to build awareness. We need to build consideration, and that delivers interest. So as we, head towards this proactive pivot, we're gonna talk about candidates in three new buckets. So if we start with the left, a candidate in my world is someone who's actively in a recruitment process. We have decided that that person is somewhat suitable for this role, and they're progressing to a shortlist, an interview, and hopefully a hire. An applicant is someone who showed interest in the job but may or may not be suitable for that job. So we need to do something with that person. And finally, we're gonna spend a lot of time talking about leads because in this new world of CRM systems like Fiona mentioned, we should be focusing more of our time further up the funnel converting these people from interest, lead, into applicants, and then into candidates. So we have this expanded talent community that we need to consider. As Ascent mentioned, we want leads to go we want leads to go from applicant to candidate to hire, but then we gotta think about what we do on the way back. So if a candidate's unsuccessful, what do we do with them? How do we keep them in our community so they're going to don't get disengaged? An applicant who's applied for a job that's not right for them. How do we keep them engaged there? And then finally, these leads, and Fiona mentioned in passing. We spent money on a recruitment marketing campaign showing someone has shown interest. They've given us their details. They may not have applied for a role yet, but how do we make sure that we don't lose that lead, we don't waste our marketing spend, and we start converting these people through the different buckets? So this sets up a a new framework, and this goes back to the CRM recruitment is marketing concept. We need to start messaging and connecting with these leads and applicants at every stage, through different sorry, through different methods and different messages. So most people sign up to marketing from various places. Right? And most people accept that if you get something interesting and something relevant, you'll take the advert, then that person's selling your job. That's basic markets selling your product. So it's may basic marketing. Same here in recruitment marketing. We wanna share with our leads and applicants to keep them engaged. Industry content that's relevant. Company content, what are we doing, EVP content, why they should consider us as a place to work, and then finally, our product, OpenJobs. Right? So if you keep that sort of marketing schedule going and in products like Clinch, this can be automated. Once a a lead shows interest, you can actually set up an automatic workflow. So these types of messages continue to flow to these candidates, until they apply for a job. What you need to hold this altogether is a robot robust career site. So you can't do any of this without knowing the people. Like Fiona said, seventy percent of people are invisible to us to come to our careers website. By investing in a recruitment marketing module like Clinch, you can then start tracking these people, gathering their details so that you can then start marketing to them industry content, company content, EVP content, so they start working down our funnel from awareness, consideration, and then be able to show interest. So how long can this take? Right? So, again, how long does it take for a lead, an applicant lead to become an applicant, become a candidate, to become a hire? The answer, it could be six minutes or it could be six months. And one example here that I find always interesting and there's probably a whole bunch of people that recruit allied health people on this call, my my best example, and it was only possible because I had clinched in a previous role that I could see this, we had a a lead make contact with our website eighty times and still not apply for a job. So they we had delivered them content. They had registered for webinars. They were getting a weekly email about our jobs. They were an interested and an interested lead, but they hadn't quite become an applicant. And this is part of this this is part of this shift is that is still a result. That person is engaged with us as an employer brand. We just haven't delivered them the job for them yet, but they have come back to us eighty times. We haven't annoyed them to the point that they have unsubscribed, and that's the key here. You've gotta get that balance right between providing content, providing insight into your organization, and then selling jobs. If you just go job, job, job, jobs, jobs, that person's probably unsubscribing. So not only is the buckets important, it's the way that you sell your message to these people over the course of that six minutes in, hopefully, in most people's cases or eighty contacts in that extreme example. So why does this matter? So what I've got here on the screen are two funnels. On the left is a high volume NDIS role service coordinator position. On the right is a allied health role, speech pathology from the top of my head, I believe. So for those people recruiting speech pathologists, look at those numbers. They're real numbers from one of my clients. Your conversion rates are probably very similar, so don't feel too bad. What these funnels show are the importance of why recruitment marketing in particular roles are important. Mike talked about unskilled work. So the one on the left is an entry level customer service, service coordination type role. So we received about three and a half thousand applications. And through the funnel, we had a one point five percent conversion. We filled sixty about sixty of the sixty seven open applications. So if you extrapolate that back, to get the sixty seven roles filled or sixty seven office acceptors that we need, we probably need about four thousand application. That's not a big increase on the three and a half thousand that we've already received. So there's some probably some things that you could do around the edges with your job ads, where you've positioned them, what you're saying, probably streamline some activities in your recruitment funnel. That's probably gonna get you pretty close to that sixty seven, number that you need. However, when we get into the world of allied health, that becomes a real challenge because that funnel there on the right, for those who are familiar, is a pretty good conversion rate. So here, we're getting about a fourteen percent conversion rate, from a hundred and forty seven applicants. You can see there we are under half the numbers we needed. But in this case, we need to double the number of applications we need to get to our forty three. We're never going to achieve that by manipulating this funnel. We can be optimistic and think that we're gonna get a higher acceptance rate. We're gonna probably think that we're gonna get a higher interview to offer rate. And for those again who do allied health roles, you probably understand that fifty forty eight percent isn't that we've been slow to offer. It's that they've disappeared in the process and ghosted us. So this is where the roles like this is where the proactive pivot comes into its own because we can't do anything with the reactive part. We've gotta start thinking about what's above the funnel. So I mentioned in passing earlier, if you're recruiting in the proactive way, where do you spend your time? And in my world, the top of the funnel is the widest bit, so you need to spend seventy percent of your time generating leads. You need twenty percent of your time and resources into those people that are already in your community, nurturing those, making sure they're engaged, and ten percent on the active applicants and candidates, The the the reactive bit, moving them from box a to box b within your recruitment process, giving them a great level of service, closing those, closing those offers, and getting people hired. So shifting to this lead generation, thinking, how do you generate the ROI, which is the second half the title of our webinar today? So you need to start with what are these people worth to your organization. So how much revenue or margin do they generate your your business? How much are you willing to spend? So what is a realistic number of that margin you're willing to reinvest to to attract these people? And how many do we need? So what we get is a pretty simple equation. Our budget is how much we are willing to spend by how many we need, and then the r ROI, profit generated by number high versus actual money spent versus number high. So this as as talent acquisition teams, these are the conversations we should be having so that we can start increasing the budget that we need to attract more leads. So I've got an extreme example from my own background. A specialist doctor in one of my previous organizations generates about two two million dollars profit. I went to the CEO and said, what about if I spend a hundred thousand dollars recruiting those people? Right? And I was agreed. That's probably a pretty good return on investment if we can hire a hire a doctor that can generate two million dollars in margin for us. And how do we how many do we need? We only really need twenty. Right? So simple simple simple maths. We agreed a budget of two million. We actually didn't spend all of that money. We didn't quite get to the number. But just by doing this simple calculation, we're starting to look at a return on investment for the organization in silly numbers. Right? And this numb this example is extreme just to prove the point of sometimes how little we invest in attracting these people to our organizations, and often our cost per higher number budget is set arbitrary. And if you can have a conversation like this with the key stakeholders, it makes a bit more sense than our cost per hire needs to be a random two thousand dollars or three thousand dollars without any context to how much do these people actually return the business. And, look, to give you some context about, that, our cost per hire ended up being about forty four thousand dollars. Right? So we agreed a hundred. We got it down to about forty four. That's great. We were already spending through other channels fifty thousand dollars for internal referrals, and we had a agency who passes resumes for sixty five thousand. So in the grand scheme of things, that forty four thousand number is not a lot compared to these other channels. And the point that Fiona made earlier is we spent this money on a campaign. We learned that these people were particularly interested in the opera because we were able to see the source of hire through all the attribution parts that clinch had for us. And so then we were able to reinvest our money more smartly because we could see down to what image, what color, what message we were putting out in the marketplace that resonated with these particular doctors. So we spent this money upfront. We hired that many, but we generated a whole bunch of leads. So over time, this cost per hire for this investment will actually get lower because through products like Clinch, we know that in two years' time, we placed Mary. Mary came for our Opera Australia campaign. That was the first time we ever met her, and then we can track all the other times that she connected with us. So this is really extreme attribution type type conversation, but it allows you to have these conversations with the marketing teams, the finance teams, senior stakeholders to say, if you give me this money, I am going to be accountable for it, and I'm going to show you the ROI in every cent that we that we that we that we spend. So that's the extreme example, but the logic flows for volume roles as well. So if some roles let let's say they generate twenty thousand dollars in margin, We agree a thousand dollars is what we wanna spend. Those ratios by the same are the same. It's about five percent of how much margin they generate, and we need a hundred. And the logic flows through here as well. Right? So cost per hire are about a thousand and fifty dollars. So with big numbers, it looks silly, but when you get down to these sort of brass tacks of some of the more practical roles, the more high volume roles, the same logic applies. Start with how much do these people make for us, how much are we willing to spend, and then track, manage, or monitor all that so you know what channels and what resources have worked and where you need to reinvest so you can get better results and continue to reduce that cost per higher number. Thanks, Fiona. Back to you, Mike. Thank you. So so that's that's well put, Garth. And, you know, as with any challenge in life, if if you don't have a suitable budget, if you don't know what success looks like and you're not measuring that success, you are ninety nine percent doomed from the start if if all of those things aren't in place. Marketing don't operate without a budget, budgets for Kia and Ferrari are very different. You know, a Ferrari buyer takes a a lot higher budget to attract than a than a than a friendly hatchback. So part of our role as as an ad agency is to see your organization through the eyes of the people you're looking to engage with, and that that's a hard thing to do because in TA and HR, obviously, you're you're very concerned and interested in technologies, practice, processes, and outcomes, which makes sense to the organization. Our role is to see you through the eyes of the people that you're looking to engage and retain. So that becomes more important than ever, I think, with the the sort of the large volumes that we're having and the transient nature of people. So so we bring the employer brand to our targets before they think of looking for work. This is this is marketing one zero one. One thing we haven't mentioned here is timing. Garth mentioned anywhere between six minutes and six months as being the gestation period for for a for a hire or a or a candidate, and it could be longer than that. So marketing work on a timing basis as well. Keep presenting consistent relevant messages to the same people, and at some point, their life will change, and they'll become open to your offer. So so it's not only a clear messaging, but timing as well. So if you flip to the next one. So this is broadly we we've been talking about funnels today. This is what our funnel looks like. You it doesn't matter how proficient you are as a recruitment marketing operative or or TA TA operative. If you don't have a strong relevant EVP to sell, then you are shoving stuff uphill. It doesn't matter how good you are at selling. If your if your EVP isn't relevant to the people you're trying to sell it to, it it will end up as either failure during the recruitment process or perhaps immediately after the hire process in in increased turnover. So so ensuring our EVP is relevant, that we turn that into an employer brand, we can communicate to all of our different audiences. That turns into recruitment marketing, and then we begin that candidate journey and the funnels that that Garth talked about. Go to the next. So if we are so our traditional way is to run job ads. You know, we run job ads on job boards and elsewhere. And we are finding people who have probably already decided they're looking for work. And you know what? We're not on our own. There there will be hundreds of other people trying to put messages in front of this person, some of them worse, some of them better, some of them spending more money, some of them more relevant, and some of them more attractive. So as we all know, job ads on job boards are a volume timing game. You you if you get lucky, good on you. If you don't, it's like eating grass to survive. What we attempt to do is put our message in front of the people if we skip the slide, Garth, rather than being one of many, it would be good to be one of one. So if we are approaching people from a recruitment marketing perspective, not on job boards, not on areas where they would naturally be looking for work, but in their own environment, when they're just going about their day to day job, if we can reach them there and engage with them, we have a they have a a consideration set of one. So we need to do a bit of homework around that. So what do our target audiences look like? Who are the successful people we hire? And we can do a bit of internal research first, particularly in that volume space. If we can build profiles and personas around the successful hires that we've done in the past, those people who came to us and stayed with us, we can start replicating that. And we can even find out what media consumption they they have, where where they go every day, you know, what what what social media platforms they're on, what their media habits are. So we can start building a picture of who they are from from who they are, not not the fact they're looking for work. So if we can identify those those those behaviors, their their media consumption habits, then we have a far higher far higher success rate of reaching and engaging them. So that involves this this gets a little bit complicated now because we're not just after one person. Garth's example of a of a of a senior doctor or radiologist is very different to people on the showroom of a of a car set of a car dealership. So each of these profiles will have very different requirements from life. Direction. They'll be using different channels, and we'll need different assets to reach them as in advertising assets. And the creative messaging that we need to reach them will be different across all of those personas, and this this could be fifty across your organization. So the more we understand about this, the more and we're not saying that success will happen overnight, but the more we can understand what works and what doesn't work, so we start farming for these people rather than just being reactive. Next, Garth. And sometimes you find out some very interesting things. Working with Garth in allied health, ninety two percent of occupational therapists are female, which tends to attract all of the energy and the attention from from recruiters, whereas eight percent are male. And and that number is is probably about three thousand in Australia with forty thousand OTs all up. So so these people have no one talking to them, no one trying to attract them, no one creating an employer brand or an EVP message for male OTs inside the organization. So that was a a a quick win we found. So when we go looking at when we transition from reactive or recruitment to recruitment marketing, you'll possibly be somewhere at the top of that that chart there. You'll be using LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a great platform, but not for everything. Allied Health, it was not very not very useful for, we found. Most people who most people who have occupational health on their LinkedIn profile will have at least twenty or thirty recruiters chasing them. So very often, they'll turn off their messaging. Job boards, we know, can work if you're lucky, but they're not not not not a strategy you can rely on. So we take you through the various stages, and this is really where clinch comes in, is understanding what works in certain instances. So taking you away from the standard job boards into pay for performance platforms like Indeed, programmatic advertising, which builds a profile of the person we're after and then goes to all of the websites that we know they they inhabit. This is how we found radiologists for for Garth in that role he mentioned. And then through to the other the other platforms. Platforms like TikTok get a lot of attention within TA and recruitment because it's cool and it's fun and everyone likes being on it. But, you know, the fact is it has a very a very limited reach to to our audience, which is great for that audience, but probably wouldn't work for a fifty fifty year old CFO. And then there's some strange ones, dating sites. Tinder captures geographical and occupational data and the fact that these people are single and mobile. So for one of the personas for OTs and speech pathologists that we worked on with Garth, we found out that Tinder was really useful for finding single OTs in Melbourne who probably want a bit of a bit of a challenge and a bit of variety and a bit of a bit of engagement in life. So so your media channels might not be the the ones you think they are, And you might cause a few raised eyebrows internally when you when you put in for a budget to run ads on Tinder, but there's a very good reason for it. Next, Garth. So so Garth came up with his budget there. If I just flip back one. Garth came up with his budget of, you know, whatever it happens to be. I've just taken a nominal five hundred k budget. Now I know most of you are are probably going, what? Where the hell would I get that from? But that that is not a big budget for an annual budget, and it's just a budget. You're not actually spending all of this money. We will be spending parts of it and then showing return on it. So at no stage do we ever have to go back and say, sorry. I lost you five hundred k. All the way through, the measurements of success we put in place are very important to show that we're spending their money wisely and build our stakeholder trust in us. So so that's how that budget might break down. It might start out at hundred hundred k or twenty percent on social media, twenty percent on programmatic. But as the results come in through through our attribution platform, perhaps clinch, we can start understanding which of those are working, and this shifts the ratios shift over time. And this is this is complex. So go back to that one, Garth. If you just go back yes. Thank you. So so this one here is is a sort of dream team, if you like. This is where you could end up at some point. Most of our clients operate down there on the on the bottom right hand side at around five o'clock. The the sort of tactical stuff, you know, we're stalking people on LinkedIn. We're cramming jobs onto job boards. We're doing all that volume easy stuff that that we are used to and that our technology allows us to do. But then as we go sort of anticlockwise, the the platforms get a little more complicated. So our digital presence increasingly is is is getting more and more sophisticated and and a and when you bring AI into this as well, it gets slightly overwhelming. But we like to bring things back to basics. So moving anticlockwise, we use programmatic to chase people behaved based on their persona and profiles. Social media ambient. Let's not forget ambient works. You know, there's nothing wrong with putting ads outside your competitor allied health centers. You know? We can we can these days, most outdoor is digital. We can have it running for short periods of time during the day when they arrive at work and leave from work. We can do some really specific targeting around these things. So there's some smart stuff in here as well. And then, Garth, if you just flip through, I think that's back to to me. Thanks, Mike. Thank you, Garth. So just to to finalize what we've been talking about, we'll summarize in a moment, go to q and a. As the guys have mentioned, really to get those harder to fill roles where there is talent scarcity, it really becomes important that you measure the outcome of that. And so being able to actually once you get that traffic, once you get the people interested in your brand and coming to your cruise website, that you lower the barrier of entry. And we have been benchmarking that data across many different industries and many different role types. And you should be expected to see some of the types of returns or measurements benchmarked here on the right hand side of this slide. So you should be getting returning traffic at least twenty five percent revisiting your site because you're giving a reason for them to come back so that when they're ready to take that role, they can. And it can be as up up to at least thirty eight percent in some cases. Activating automation to help your teams do that so they don't have to lift a finger. And we know content's important, as Garth mentioned earlier. You know, whether it be video campaigns, blog content, targeted outreach, as Mike mentioned, all of those things can measure effectiveness, and the more targeted they are to the people you're reaching out to, the more likely are you're gonna get a return and quality hire. In fact, four times more likely to convert a candidate who is who's looked at your content in that way. And finally, you should be hiring from those talent communities, from your leads through to your applicants and candidates. They're the most cost effective way you can reduce over time your your actual high ratio. We're seeing those that do that well, that they hire one in every four people in their talent community. It's important to track and measure it, report, and be agile every quarter around how you approach the the the attraction strategy. So as we wrap up today's webinar before we go to q and a and a poll, I think the key messages for the team here is really, first of all, make sure you're looking at your specific use case. Gather the information you have and reach out to your key stakeholders, whether that be IT, talent acquisition, or even marketing, as as Garth mentioned earlier, and align them to the value of these roles in your business and how you can solve those problems in an economic way. Put the dollar value against the outcome we're trying to achieve and ensure that the business is clear on that, and be brave, as Mike said, and explore new channels that you haven't tried before, not necessarily the same ones every time. And, of course, you need to measure it because if you can measure it and iterate, you'll be able to demonstrate the success of that on an ongoing basis. So we'll move to a poll now, Jess, if you can activate that. And if anybody's interested in learning more about this topic, there's a variety of different ways. We're happy to do that with you. So if you guys could show what sort of information you'd like, whether that be more information just on the content we've provided or participating in a hands on workshop or how to put it into action in your business or just generally learning more across the funnel strategies, then please let us know, and we can send that follow-up content to you. So it looks like we've got people voting. We'll just give that a second. And then while that's going on, Jess, we'll just turn to probably got time for one question. If we want to do that, we'll have to we're nearly at time, but maybe we can Perfect. Thanks, V. Yep. I can throw out a question here. So okay. So how do we compete with big players who have much larger recruitment marketing budgets? So maybe I'll throw that one to Mike first. Yeah. Thanks, Jess. Well, the key to that is is, firstly, as Gar said, understanding what success looks like. You can achieve you can achieve outcomes with fifty grand if you are realistic with those outcomes. But the most important part is measurement and feedback, making sure that we we use the money wisely and we show where we've used the money and what the return has been. The other thing I would say is is we don't we don't measure hires, and we and we can't relate hires back to budget. What we can what we are most able to do is deliver offers, job offers. Once we've offered someone to you that you want, that's the job of the media done. So it's an important part not to overpromise on this. Job offers is the the end goal here, but but measurement is the key. Do have anything to add? Yeah. And, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike's true. Right? The media delivers you the leads, and then it's up to you to convert them. Right? So be realistic in that because as a as a recruit and marketing agency, that's Mike's job is to deliver to the talent acquisition team, and then it's our job to convert from leads to to applicants to candidates. Right? So that's when the TA bit if you don't have a great ATS, if you don't have a great workflow, if you're being too slow, all those things will start showing up in your reactive, part of your funnel. So, we focus on the top, but you're doing all the stuff at the top and you're not getting results at the bottom, it could be that your actual recruitment workflows need refinement as well. So can't take your eye off that. We are measured on on hires as the talent acquisition team, but I agree with Mike that the the attribution stuff needs to be on on offers. So yeah. And competing with other d one, remember, it's about how much they're worth to your organization, not every other organization. So how you make that, work within your company is different. You only you might only need five. So if you're saying you're spending five grand by five, that's only twenty five thousand dollars. The big guy might need five by fifty, so that's why their budget is bigger. So get that budget down by number of roles and how much you're willing to pay, means that, yeah, you're you're competing relatively, relatively not in whole dollar number. Thanks, guys. I think we're actually at time. If you did submit a a question and it wasn't answered, we will follow back up with you and give you some tips on how to deal with that. And we're obviously as I said at the top of the call, we will share the today's recording, and I hope you guys got something some value of of today's session. Thanks for joining us. Thanks, everyone. Cheers. Bye bye.